This is the one I was waiting for. Thank you, Mr. Turfstein. NBC should see this. Coach Amy Griffin should see this. Every parent in Mt. Lebanon needs to see this.
"We have seen dozens of studies. Not a single one says that turf creates any risk".
-Dave Brumfield, Mt Lebanon Commissioner, Recipient of countless research studies submitted by professionals residing in his community reflecting health, injury, financial and environmental concerns associated with synthetic turf
11:46 That's because he DID NOT research any studies! This was in the works 8-10 years ago. Actually the first time I heard about it was at the Crystal block party. Dave's wife was pushing a massive community/school district swimming complex that was "bigger & better" than even PITTs. Then she started in on how Mt Lebanon needed turfed fields and an indoor field. Sports are everything after all. Now it appears to be over and the grass fields are gone. Brumfield's political career is thankfully over. Smith and Miller are stuck in the mess too. Hope it kills any chance they have in moving up the ladder, And don't forget Dick's! They provided money for this project so they as a business promote unsafe playing environment for children. We now order our sports "stuff" on the Internet.
Just returned from Redmond Washington for a huge Microsoft event and right across the street from the hotel we stayed at was a huge 10-12 field sports park. There was mud EVERYWHERE because they were removing the AstroTurf and planting grass in each and every field. The hotel manager said that it was common in that area to revert back to grass. He couldn't believe that people on the "East Coast" were so environmentally insensitive to remove grass for toxic plastic. How much are we behind in Mt Lebanon? 10/20 years?
Here's a link to a World Health Organization regarding breathing and cancer causation. I, for one, would like to know what the commissioners are going to do help us stop breathing. http://guardianlv.com/2013/10/breathing-air-may-cause-cancer-according-to-study/
6:38 You miss the point with your sarcastic comments.
The point is that we are exposed to naturally occurring and man-made toxins every day. Here we have a choice to either limit that exposure or increase it.
The commissioners are willingly choosing to increase exposure to carcinogens to our kids.
We seem to have lost the turf battle as construction is rapidly proceeding. We need to move on as a group of concerned Lebo Citizens.
I have a concern with the Rec Center pool. They put chlorine in it. Have you seen the MSDS for chlorine? It's awful stuff.
I say that we suggest they either stop chlorinating and let nature take its course. If people decide not to swim in green water than my proposal will be to fill in the area with dirt and grass it over.
This will allow for a grass field where "non-turf" sports can take place. We can have "non-turf" youth soccer teams", etc.
If those don't get enough participants then at least we'll have an opportunity to have this "turf fight" all again when they commissioner propose the we artificial turf the area now known as "Former Pool Park".
Seriously, look at the MSDS for chlorine. I can't believe people allow their children to swim in pools.
Yes 8:53 AM, construction is rapidly proceeding. Construction is going at lightning speed. It may be completed before Hotel Tyvek. But I'm not giving up. Why have New York City and Los Angeles School District banned use of this? Is Brumfield that much smarter? Are our commissioners that much wiser? Elaine
By the way, Kristen. I can see you peeking. Good luck with the concert. I was in Venice about fifteen years ago and was inspired by its beauty. I hope you have a chance to go there some day. Break a leg. Elaine
Of the commissioners, it is Brumfield who is the most guilty of wrong doing. As far as land use ethics, previous case law has demonstrated that "there need not be any interest specifically forbidden by the General Municipal Law nor is it the test whether there is a conflict but whether there might be".... as noted by our courts....[a] public official must be beyond suspicion".
Brumfield is a) not beyond suspicion and b) there might be a conflict. These FACTS are demonstrated by his major involvement with youth lacrosse, his child's state ranking as a lacrosse player, his friends, his coaching, and associated Mt Lacrosse Association/local businesses, and finally, his behind the scene efforts to clean up the trail, and refusal to share donor information to the Wildcat Turf project.
The citizens are beginning to hold the leadership responsible for: a) bad decision making processes, and b) bad decisions. Often, "a" and "b" are connected -- it's only a matter of time before bad processes lead to bad outcomes.
These bad processes and decisions have occurred over a series of years, but can be highlighted in two major ones:
1) The Newcomer's Tax 2) The Turf Project
Further, because it is not hard to draw a line between the two (Pillaging new residents for money so that the 'old guard' can have their toys for the few), we have 'interest convergence' around a change in governmental procedures and decisions... as well as a call to get rid of the leaders themselves.
Because the commissioners, writ large, continue to refuse to listen to the people - it is only a matter of time before they are out. The question is--when? What will be the tipping point?
So, Brumfield says that if you don't want your kids to play on turf then don't have them play on turf. That means that some kids will not be playing their sport at all. I'm not a huge sports person, but I'd rather see these kids play on grass than sit in front of a video game or computer screen. It's turf or a sedentary lifestyle.
This is all marvelous evidence to use against these elected clowns and their staff serfs, including the manager and solicitor who seems to be looking the other way, when people become injured or sick from the turf.
Thank you Elaine for making this all available. Are you screaming yet, Morgans ?
8:53 sorry to be so nasty, you don't really want to wage a war on chlorine in the pool do you? Unless you're going to tell me that you never drink, cook or bathe in water from PA-American Water, you're really trying to divert attention from the turf battle aren't you?
Top athletes around the world from the NFL to FIFA don't like the artificial stuff! It's that simple. Wildcat Middle won't be the "crown jewel" the commissioners are advertising it as!
"Gareth Bale slammed the artificial turf he played on Tuesday in Andorra for a Euro 2016 qualifier, calling it “by far the worst pitch I have ever played on.”
Bale delivered the game-winning goal for Wales against Andorra for a 2-1 victory, but he wasn’t happy about the excessive black rubber pellets that kicked up throughout the match, and the feel of the field.
“I can’t describe how bad, bobbly and hard the pitch was to deal with,” he said, via the Daily Mail."
"As the question continues to be asked — Would the men be asked to play a World Cup on artificial turf? — there’s an implicit answer from one of the world’s best players, who is outraged to be playing even a Euro qualifying opener on the plastic stuff. The answer is no."
But we as a community are instead going to follow those illustrious sports figures... Brumfield, Linfante, Bendel and Silverman's advice on the type os surface our kids should play on. Hahahahahahahahahahaha
Brumfield said: “A lot of you who haven’t researched this issue as much as we on the commission have probably found it quite frightening,”
I am curious, where is all this commission researched? Did they all research turf independently? Did they not share their research with each other and the municipal staff? Did they talk about it off the record? Email each other privately? It is curious that the NBC/Washington Coach news doesn't show up in any commission discussions or meetings until after it broke on NBC. It doesn't appear in any of the RTKs either. Are you trying to pull the wool over our eyes Dave? C'mon you can be honest, we're all friends and neighbors here.
I did find this on Josephine Posti's old blog, Center Court. As far back as 2008, there were environmental concerns with artificial turf. Fields Update Elaine
Posti wrote: "Another concern I shared was the environmental impact of installing artificial turf on these fields - something I believe we're obligated to consider. With our joint participation with the Municipality in the Cool Cities initiative, we do need to give joint consideration to environmental issues that impact the community."
One would think Cappucci, isn't she suppose to be an environmentalist of some sort, would be chimimg in on turf. Aa far as the Super or teachers, they're not going to bit the party hand that feeds them.
To be fair, viewing of Brumfield's lecture video should be paired with the scariest video I've seen this year, Halloween included: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q2USPTy_wVM
"We want to keep an open mind and really choose what is best for the city," Reid said. "It is important to people because many residents are concerned about the infill. We are looking at everything and cost is only one of the criteria. The other criteria are, are there negative health impacts? Are there negative environmental impacts? What are the maintenance concerns and what is the longevity of the product in terms of maintains a safe playing field in the long term?" "Crumb rubber" causes worries After watching the YouTube video of Dave Brumfield, did he appear to be keeping an open mind? Is he concerned about the cost? The negative health impacts? The negative environmental impacts? Is Kristen Linfante? John Bendel? Steve Silverman? Elaine
I hear the plans for the indoor lacrosse cough cough soccer field is about done. Guess where it is to be built? And guess how much it will cost? The rich living over in Virginia Manor aren't going to be happy campers... Having to drive through "undesirable" areas and all! But Brumfield and crew will make things A-OK with indoor golf crap. Remember all this when you write that check for your taxes.
Do tell, 8:32 AM. Let me guess the location first. My initial pick was Main Park, but your "'undesirable' areas" hint leads me to believe it is McNeilly. I have heard rumblings of certain SAB members were going to take on McNeilly after breaking ground at Middle and Wildcat. Another clue was when Gateway came back with a number TEN times what they originally estimated to move Public Works over to McNeilly.
I did hear at the rally that future turf projects were coming down the pike. Elaine
Something that has always botherred me in the turf debate.
Larry Evans, proclaimed Firld Turf expert wrote in a letter to The Almanac: "We Leboites should thank our lucky stars that the biggest concerns currently confronting our sleepy little suburb are to coldly cull or just politely neuter our dancing and prancing (into traffic) deer population and to artificially turf a couple of perpetually soggy sports fields or stay grassy “green” but rather lean on our kids’ playing time."
This expert- you'd think he'd have a goid grasp on the condition of our fields- calls a couple perpetually soggy.
But, our civil engineer Dan Dieseroth, continually states that WCM is too hard-packed and doesn't retain water any more than an artificially turfed one will.
Hmmmm, how can a field be both perpetually soggy and too hard-packed to hold water at the same time????
Regarding rumors of future turf projects, this we do know and it isn't a rumor. Soon, the high school project will be completed and it will be time to recover the Rock Pile field. Cappucci claims the decision to turf it or not will be decided sometime around 2018. But why 2018? We're going to let it sit for 3 years as a muddy mess?
My opinion, we better figure out sooner rather than later if turf is healthy and cost-effective. Right, now we have one turfed field, two after Wildcat is completed. Turf McNeilly and the Rock Pile and our kids will be practicing and playing on a surface where we just don't know the complete story on the health implications. May of the chemicals in the artificial are harmless at certain levels, zinc for one. But what are the cumulative impacts? Nearly imperceptable levels of lead (unsafe at any level) become disasterous to kids health when it accumulates. We need to decide now to put a stop on any future turf installations until all the evodence is in!!!
Page 53 of the 2014-2019 Capital Inprovement Plan has $4million projected for "recreation improvements" at McNielly. Details are scarce but it says it includes two rectangular fields and a baseball diamond. Nothing about indoor facilities, nothing about turf. I believe the indoor facilities are a general waste of money - private enterprises are much better positioned to build and run these facilities. In particular, an indoor facilities would serve the needs of even fewer in his town than a turfed outdoor field. It would be in essence a giveaway to Sport Authorities while the town remains on the hook for maintenance. If an indoor facility were to be built, it would obviously have to have an artificial surface. At some level, if the facility would be built at taxpayer expense, it would have been nice to have a fine grass field on which EVERYONE could have played. Anyone even half concerned about the fiscal condition of this town and the amount of taxes we all pay should getting involved and keeping in check all these shenanigans from here on out.
Based on the proposals highlighted in the above 2014-2019 Plan and compared to the visions announced on Brumfiled's blog linked here, we need to rein these sports people or in NOW before they drive this community into bankruptcy or cause taxes to rise to such heights that our homes will be unmarketable.
The sports people believe that Mt. Lebanon will NEVER go into bankruptcy, will NEVER see a decline in its fortunes, and will eventually be the place that most Americans will pine for in the future. They are totalitarian socialist utopians. Period.
Don't forget Jason many of those $300,000+ range homes have appreciated very little since they were bought 10-20 years ago and fall well outside the commissioners cutoff date for "newcomers" tax appeals. It's also interesting that when the homeowners put these houses on the market they set the sale price at $500,000 or more.
It's no wonder they have no problem spending undesignated tax money on more and more athletic facilities! They're getting a bargain.
And Jason, that does not include the fees your family pays to live in the bubble - go on the muni website, public documents, and click on the fee schedule link !
Proposition H is an initiative that would require the athletic fields in the western edge of Golden Gate Park to be maintained as natural grass and would ban nighttime lighting.
How is it Mayors and School Superintendents from NJ to Washington are rethinking their turf projects but, our commissioners don't see any evidence of potential health hazards?
Because the mayors and superintendents from NJ to Washington haven't "seen the dozens of studies...uh, not a single one says that...uh, turf creates any risk."
I have sent dozens of studies which do say that turf creates many risks to the commission and copied the solicitor. How can Solicitor Weis let Brumfield make that claim? How can Weis sit there knowing that dozens of studies were presented to the commission during Citizen Comments?
How many commissioners are charter members of the Mt. Lebanon Liars Club? Elaine
I want to put this out there that Dave Brumfield made the decision to allow his ____ to play on turf when ___was in first grade. (I can't make any references to his ____ or else he will sue me.) Tire crumb infill came to Mt. Lebanon in 2010, not any earlier.
I have also sent studies to the commission indicating that the blades of "grass" and the backing are also harmful. Even if they suddenly decide to use organic infill, the turf is still toxic.
Brumfield makes a crucial error in my opinion. He is correct in stating that "nearly" every sport in Mt. Lebanon plays on artificial turf. The key word being "nearly." He is though incorrect that he and the commissioners aren't forcing are young athletes to play on turf. He's wrong! By turfing Wildcat and Middle Field he is forcing parents that want their kids to participate in a field sport to at some point play on artificial turf. Currently no baseball or softball field 'IN' Mt. Lebanon has an artificially turfed surface. SO MR. BRUMFIELD YOU ARE BY TURFING BALLFIELDS ELIMINATING ANY OPPORTUNITY FOR PARENTS WHO WANT THEIR KIDS TO PLAY A FIELD SPORT ONTO ARTIFICIAL TURF! The only choice Mr. Brumfield, you'll be giving parents if they don't want their kids on turf is to either allow their kids to inhale crumb rubber or avoid ANY field sport. Nice going Dave, force parents into a corner.
Brumfield's statement is correct regarding nearly every [outdoor] sport for Mt. Lebanon participants playing on turf. Before high school, my son played on turf, representing Mt. Lebanon teams, in baseball, football, lacrosse and soccer. So, if your child plays sports in Mt. Lebanon run or sponsored teams, they wil play on turf.
No Brumfield's statement is not correct! There are no turfed baseball fields in MtL! Yes, once your kid reaches travel baseball/softball or high school baseball/softball they may indeed play on a turfed field, but not until that time. The younger kids play baseball/softball strictly on natural grass in MTL until now. Now considering the cummulative effects of certain elements like lead, zinc do we really want to increase small children to more exposure and earlier?
I just went through my athlete's fall soccer schedule.
He played on turf 2 out of 17 games. The two fields included the North Hills/Martorelli Stadium and Peter's Township High School.
His practices were all on grass, aside from try-out hours on the high school turf during the summer.
This commitment to soccer from age 3 to 13 in Mt Lebanon has resulted in 11% seasonal exposure to turf at the highest level of competition. Prior to this high school team, he had less exposure to turf.
We did not see this turf coming -- we were never asked, informed or warned that MTL would be pushing synthetic turf for soccer.
If you doubt my data, ask the high school soccer coaches for the schedules and we can compare notes.
7:56, the only totally turfed baseball field I'm aware of in the WPIAL baseball system is Fox Chapel and that was only turfed in May of 2012 with $800,000 from a private donor. Here in hoity-tioity Mt. Lebanon our oh so committed sports enthusiast struggled to come up with less than 25% of the cost of their precious turf!
Pre-HS Football - Mt. Lebanon Stadium, USC Pre-HS Lacrosse - USC, Peters and multiple across PA, OH and MD Pre-HS Soccer - Years ago, I don't recall the location, but since my memory is bad if you go the MLSA webpage you'll see a couple of nice photos of what look to be 7-10 year olds playing on turf. Pre-HS Baseball - this was a long time ago but I seem to remember taking my son to a nearby town where there was a dirt infield and turf outfield. My recollection could be faulty on that one.
I agree the % is low but it is already happening across all the sports.
7:56, up until now a parent could sign their kid up for maverick thru major baseball and reasonably assume that the child would never practice or play on an artificially turfed field since all games for these age groups are scheduled on Lebo ballfields.
Now with the installation of turf at WCM the only choice a parent is left with is "does my kid play a field sport or not?" I'd say Brumfield is forcing parents to make choices.
Dave isn't the only one forcing parents to choose. I hope Albert Turfstein comes through with some additional videos with John Bendel. In mtl Magazine, Steve Silverman wanted to increase Gatorade sales. How about the people who signed the donation checks from your child's sports organization.. Didn't Chip sign a check for $25,000 from the baseball association?
I hope there is a massive protest, because I have been writing about this for over a year! People are finally starting to get it. Elaine
Actually these spendthrift commissioners and school directors are forcing residents/parents into deciding something more important than whether their kids play on turf or not. Many people are beginning to question whether Mt. Lebanon is worth the cost of living here. From sports participation fees, pool fees, greens fees, stormwater fees, student parking and lab fees, to taxes,
So I've known there is some anger about this issue. Some of it about the allocation of taxpayer dollars and some of it about health concerns. Some people are angered by both. I'm read that there is going to be a protest.
I drove by the site today to look for myself and it appears the top layer is removed and initial leveling done. Piles of stone are on the site and corrugated pipe so it appears that the installation of a drainage system is about to begin.
I'm guessing this whole process will take 6 - 10 weeks and two weeks are done (25% complete) based on my estimate.
Reports are that $250K was given via personal, sport association and corporate donations. I'll assume it included the four sports associations likely to use this field. So this would include baseball and soccer that current use the fields. Does some know what those associations contributed? If they contributed doesn't that indicate the association leadership supports the turf construction? You might not agree but they are the board members that get to decide. I'll apply the same theory to the township board. They are elected whether you agree or not. So the question with the township board becomes one of process. Was the process legal or not? It appears there is a divergence of opinion.
So my question is if the sports associations have donated, the construction is 25% complete meaning contracts are signed is the intention to use protests to stop the construction? Short of civil disobedience which would be comprised of occupying the field how is it proposed that this construction will be stopped? A court ordered injunction? Besides one of those two methods I'm not quite sure how the construction gets stopped. Are there any others?
If the construction is completed in the next 6-8 weeks is the intention to have the field removed post completion?
Sure you can vote the scroundrels out, but looking at the voting percentages of a previous post and really only people who vote count since non-voters can't vote out anyone you'll have to wait for that which I guess is a year or two away as I don't see any commissioner signs on lawns.
So, are people going to pitch tents on the field and occupy the space? Is someone going to secure legal representation and file an injunction?
Otherwise what I see here is all talk unless some action is going to be taken besides attending meetings and picket sign protests and thus waiting for the next election.
I'm not trying to minimize your opinions but what I see is no serious action of civil disobedience or legal injunction which would be required at this point. If I've missed reports of some sort of space occupying protest or filing of a legal injunction please point me to the reports so I can read about it or the opinion issued by the judge.
Just trying to understand the complete picture and what the end game to get to the process the stop besides attending meetings and blog posts.
Based on the commissioners response to their constituents appeals and their arrogant stance that they know more about turf than anyone else, your question is a good one. I would think at this point a lawsuit should be filed, but having niether the legal acumen or financial resources I can admit I won't be filing one.
I guess the only end game I can see through all this is that we step up our scrutiny of our elected officials and municipal employees until we can get them all out. It is rumored there are more turfing plans in the works. Let's not let another go thru!
If all these protests and blog postings do is wake up the sleeping residents of this town it will have been well worth it. Change is coming; probably not as fast as some would like, but that's the way it goes. Although I think it's a long shot, should it turn out that artificial turf does indeed cause latent cancer I would not want to be one of the current commissioners, even if they are out of office but still living around here.
Want to put a stop to the sports spending? Cut off the money supply! Don't vote for the guy for Governor that is promising to maintain the status quo of spend and tax, spend and tax, spend and tax. Then seriously take a look at the people that control how property taxes are collected in PA and won't deal with pension costs and out of control higher education bills. We must start somewhere, it might as well be here and now.
60 comments:
Isn't Brumfield's boy in HS? Rubber tire crumbs weren't on the field when he was in 1st grade. He must have skipped alot of grades in 4 years.
"I won the election so I am holding all of the marbles, if you don't like my plans then take your dump truck and go home!"
Visionary Leaders Across Sectors Issue a Renewed Vision for Protecting Children's Environmental Health
http://www.prweb.com/releases/CEHN/VisionStatement/prweb12282999.htm
"We have seen dozens of studies. Not a single one says that turf creates any risk".
-Dave Brumfield, Mt Lebanon Commissioner,
Recipient of countless research studies submitted by professionals residing in his community reflecting health, injury, financial and environmental concerns associated with synthetic turf
11:46 That's because he DID NOT research any studies! This was in the works 8-10 years ago. Actually the first time I heard about it was at the Crystal block party. Dave's wife was pushing a massive community/school district swimming complex that was "bigger & better" than even PITTs. Then she started in on how Mt Lebanon needed turfed fields and an indoor field. Sports are everything after all. Now it appears to be over and the grass fields are gone. Brumfield's political career is thankfully over. Smith and Miller are stuck in the mess too. Hope it kills any chance they have in moving up the ladder, And don't forget Dick's! They provided money for this project so they as a business promote unsafe playing environment for children. We now order our sports "stuff" on the Internet.
Just returned from Redmond Washington for a huge Microsoft event and right across the street from the hotel we stayed at was a huge 10-12 field sports park. There was mud EVERYWHERE because they were removing the AstroTurf and planting grass in each and every field. The hotel manager said that it was common in that area to revert back to grass. He couldn't believe that people on the "East Coast" were so environmentally insensitive to remove grass for toxic plastic. How much are we behind in Mt Lebanon? 10/20 years?
I love how at the very end Commissioner Fraasch says, uh, Dave you don't speak for the entire commission.
Here's a link to a World Health Organization regarding breathing and cancer causation. I, for one, would like to know what the commissioners are going to do help us stop breathing. http://guardianlv.com/2013/10/breathing-air-may-cause-cancer-according-to-study/
6:38
You miss the point with your sarcastic comments.
The point is that we are exposed to naturally occurring and man-made toxins every day. Here we have a choice to either limit that exposure or increase it.
The commissioners are willingly choosing to increase exposure to carcinogens to our kids.
I'm with the last poster. Hey, Commissioner Brumfield, what are you going to do to help me stop breathing?
We seem to have lost the turf battle as construction is rapidly proceeding. We need to move on as a group of concerned Lebo Citizens.
I have a concern with the Rec Center pool. They put chlorine in it. Have you seen the MSDS for chlorine? It's awful stuff.
I say that we suggest they either stop chlorinating and let nature take its course. If people decide not to swim in green water than my proposal will be to fill in the area with dirt and grass it over.
This will allow for a grass field where "non-turf" sports can take place. We can have "non-turf" youth soccer teams", etc.
If those don't get enough participants then at least we'll have an opportunity to have this "turf fight" all again when they commissioner propose the we artificial turf the area now known as "Former Pool Park".
Seriously, look at the MSDS for chlorine. I can't believe people allow their children to swim in pools.
Yes 8:53 AM, construction is rapidly proceeding. Construction is going at lightning speed. It may be completed before Hotel Tyvek. But I'm not giving up. Why have New York City and Los Angeles School District banned use of this? Is Brumfield that much smarter? Are our commissioners that much wiser?
Elaine
By the way, Kristen. I can see you peeking. Good luck with the concert. I was in Venice about fifteen years ago and was inspired by its beauty. I hope you have a chance to go there some day. Break a leg.
Elaine
"I love the smell of turf in the morning." -- Lieutenant Colonel Bill Kilgore from the movie Apocalypse Now
Of the commissioners, it is Brumfield who is the most guilty of wrong doing. As far as land use ethics, previous case law has demonstrated that "there need not be any interest specifically forbidden by the General Municipal Law nor is it the test whether there is a conflict but whether there might be".... as noted by our courts....[a] public official must be beyond suspicion".
Brumfield is a) not beyond suspicion and b) there might be a conflict. These FACTS are demonstrated by his major involvement with youth lacrosse, his child's state ranking as a lacrosse player, his friends, his coaching, and associated Mt Lacrosse Association/local businesses, and finally, his behind the scene efforts to clean up the trail, and refusal to share donor information to the Wildcat Turf project.
Did Phil Weis really pass the bar exam?
To me, this is what is going on here:
The citizens are beginning to hold the leadership responsible for: a) bad decision making processes, and b) bad decisions. Often, "a" and "b" are connected -- it's only a matter of time before bad processes lead to bad outcomes.
These bad processes and decisions have occurred over a series of years, but can be highlighted in two major ones:
1) The Newcomer's Tax
2) The Turf Project
Further, because it is not hard to draw a line between the two (Pillaging new residents for money so that the 'old guard' can have their toys for the few), we have 'interest convergence' around a change in governmental procedures and decisions... as well as a call to get rid of the leaders themselves.
Because the commissioners, writ large, continue to refuse to listen to the people - it is only a matter of time before they are out. The question is--when? What will be the tipping point?
- Jason Margolis
So, Brumfield says that if you don't want your kids to play on turf then don't have them play on turf. That means that some kids will not be playing their sport at all. I'm not a huge sports person, but I'd rather see these kids play on grass than sit in front of a video game or computer screen. It's turf or a sedentary lifestyle.
This is all marvelous evidence to use against these elected clowns and their staff serfs, including the manager and solicitor who seems to be looking the other way, when people become injured or sick from the turf.
Thank you Elaine for making this all available. Are you screaming yet, Morgans ?
8:53 sorry to be so nasty, you don't really want to wage a war on chlorine in the pool do you?
Unless you're going to tell me that you never drink, cook or bathe in water from PA-American Water, you're really trying to divert attention from the turf battle aren't you?
http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2012/01/30/pennsylvania-american-water-to-use-new-chemical-in-water-treatment/
Top athletes around the world from the NFL to FIFA don't like the artificial stuff! It's that simple. Wildcat Middle won't be the "crown jewel" the commissioners are advertising it as!
http://womens.soccerly.com/2014/09/10/gareth-bale-rips-andorra-artificial-turf-worst-pitch/
"Gareth Bale slammed the artificial turf he played on Tuesday in Andorra for a Euro 2016 qualifier, calling it “by far the worst pitch I have ever played on.”
Bale delivered the game-winning goal for Wales against Andorra for a 2-1 victory, but he wasn’t happy about the excessive black rubber pellets that kicked up throughout the match, and the feel of the field.
“I can’t describe how bad, bobbly and hard the pitch was to deal with,” he said, via the Daily Mail."
"As the question continues to be asked — Would the men be asked to play a World Cup on artificial turf? — there’s an implicit answer from one of the world’s best players, who is outraged to be playing even a Euro qualifying opener on the plastic stuff. The answer is no."
But we as a community are instead going to follow those illustrious sports figures... Brumfield, Linfante, Bendel and Silverman's advice on the type os surface our kids should play on.
Hahahahahahahahahahaha
Brumfield said:
“A lot of you who haven’t researched this issue as much as we on the commission have probably found it quite frightening,”
I am curious, where is all this commission researched? Did they all research turf independently? Did they not share their research with each other and the municipal staff?
Did they talk about it off the record? Email each other privately?
It is curious that the NBC/Washington Coach news doesn't show up in any commission discussions or meetings until after it broke on NBC. It doesn't appear in any of the RTKs either.
Are you trying to pull the wool over our eyes Dave?
C'mon you can be honest, we're all friends and neighbors here.
Still no opinion on turf from the School Board, Administration or Teacher's Union, eh?
Guess they're to heavily engaged on the next pay raises or our campaigning for tax 'em more Tom Wolf!
I did find this on Josephine Posti's old blog, Center Court. As far back as 2008, there were environmental concerns with artificial turf.
Fields Update
Elaine
Great find Elaine!
Posti wrote: "Another concern I shared was the environmental impact of installing artificial turf on these fields - something I believe we're obligated to consider. With our joint participation with the Municipality in the Cool Cities initiative, we do need to give joint consideration to environmental issues that impact the community."
One would think Cappucci, isn't she suppose to be an environmentalist of some sort, would be chimimg in on turf.
Aa far as the Super or teachers, they're not going to bit the party hand that feeds them.
MLS players sympathize with women over use of World Cup artificial turf
To be fair, viewing of Brumfield's lecture video should be paired with the scariest video I've seen this year, Halloween included:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q2USPTy_wVM
Interesting quotes in that article, 7:32.
"'No one ever wants to play on turf,' said Montreal impact goalkeeper Evan Bush"
"'I think we should eradicate turf from football,' added Toronto FC captain Steven Caldwell."
"Caldwell calls turf an 'alien surface' that is not good for the joints. 'it can be dangerous at times as well,' he said."
But hey, Brumfield, Bendel, Linfante, Silverman and last but not least, Dave Franklin know way more than the above footballers!
"We want to keep an open mind and really choose what is best for the city," Reid said. "It is important to people because many residents are concerned about the infill. We are looking at everything and cost is only one of the criteria. The other criteria are, are there negative health impacts? Are there negative environmental impacts? What are the maintenance concerns and what is the longevity of the product in terms of maintains a safe playing field in the long term?"
"Crumb rubber" causes worries
After watching the YouTube video of Dave Brumfield, did he appear to be keeping an open mind? Is he concerned about the cost? The negative health impacts? The negative environmental impacts? Is Kristen Linfante? John Bendel? Steve Silverman?
Elaine
I hear the plans for the indoor lacrosse cough cough soccer field is about done. Guess where it is to be built? And guess how much it will cost? The rich living over in Virginia Manor aren't going to be happy campers... Having to drive through "undesirable" areas and all! But Brumfield and crew will make things A-OK with indoor golf crap. Remember all this when you write that check for your taxes.
Do tell, 8:32 AM.
Let me guess the location first. My initial pick was Main Park, but your "'undesirable' areas" hint leads me to believe it is McNeilly. I have heard rumblings of certain SAB members were going to take on McNeilly after breaking ground at Middle and Wildcat. Another clue was when Gateway came back with a number TEN times what they originally estimated to move Public Works over to McNeilly.
I did hear at the rally that future turf projects were coming down the pike.
Elaine
http://www.thealmanac.net/article/20140723/OPINION02/140729998
Something that has always botherred me in the turf debate.
Larry Evans, proclaimed Firld Turf expert wrote in a letter to The Almanac: "We Leboites should thank our lucky stars that the biggest concerns currently confronting our sleepy little suburb are to coldly cull or just politely neuter our dancing and prancing (into traffic) deer population and to artificially turf a couple of perpetually soggy sports fields or stay grassy “green” but rather lean on our kids’ playing time."
This expert- you'd think he'd have a goid grasp on the condition of our fields- calls a couple perpetually soggy.
But, our civil engineer Dan Dieseroth, continually states that WCM is too hard-packed and doesn't retain water any more than an artificially turfed one will.
Hmmmm, how can a field be both perpetually soggy and too hard-packed to hold water at the same time????
Regarding rumors of future turf projects, this we do know and it isn't a rumor.
Soon, the high school project will be completed and it will be time to recover the Rock Pile field.
Cappucci claims the decision to turf it or not will be decided sometime around 2018.
But why 2018?
We're going to let it sit for 3 years as a muddy mess?
My opinion, we better figure out sooner rather than later if turf is healthy and cost-effective.
Right, now we have one turfed field, two after Wildcat is completed. Turf McNeilly and the Rock Pile and our kids will be practicing and playing on a surface where we just don't know the complete story on the health implications.
May of the chemicals in the artificial are harmless at certain levels, zinc for one. But what are the cumulative impacts? Nearly imperceptable levels of lead (unsafe at any level) become disasterous to kids health when it accumulates.
We need to decide now to put a stop on any future turf installations until all the evodence is in!!!
Page 53 of the 2014-2019 Capital Inprovement Plan has $4million projected for "recreation improvements" at McNielly. Details are scarce but it says it includes two rectangular fields and a baseball diamond. Nothing about indoor facilities, nothing about turf.
I believe the indoor facilities are a general waste of money - private enterprises are much better positioned to build and run these facilities. In particular, an indoor facilities would serve the needs of even fewer in his town than a turfed outdoor field. It would be in essence a giveaway to Sport Authorities while the town remains on the hook for maintenance.
If an indoor facility were to be built, it would obviously have to have an artificial surface. At some level, if the facility would be built at taxpayer expense, it would have been nice to have a fine grass field on which EVERYONE could have played.
Anyone even half concerned about the fiscal condition of this town and the amount of taxes we all pay should getting involved and keeping in check all these shenanigans from here on out.
FOLLOW THE MONEY!
http://www.davebrumfield.com/
Based on the proposals highlighted in the above 2014-2019 Plan and compared to the visions announced on Brumfiled's blog linked here, we need to rein these sports people or in NOW before they drive this community into bankruptcy or cause taxes to rise to such heights that our homes will be unmarketable.
The sports people believe that Mt. Lebanon will NEVER go into bankruptcy, will NEVER see a decline in its fortunes, and will eventually be the place that most Americans will pine for in the future. They are totalitarian socialist utopians. Period.
The community has already reached the tipping point in terms of being overtaxed.
A $300,000 property = $10,000/yr. in property taxes. That doesn't even include the local income tax you may to the municipality.
I am from NYC, and even to me that statistic shows we have reached the ridiculous point.
- Jason M.
So we will have all green field turf and multi-colored streets because Brumfield says so. Really nice communities don't have multi-colored streets.
Don't forget Jason many of those $300,000+ range homes have appreciated very little since they were bought 10-20 years ago and fall well outside the commissioners cutoff date for "newcomers" tax appeals.
It's also interesting that when the homeowners put these houses on the market they set the sale price at $500,000 or more.
It's no wonder they have no problem spending undesignated tax money on more and more athletic facilities! They're getting a bargain.
And Jason, that does not include the fees your family pays to live in the bubble - go on the muni website, public documents, and click on the fee schedule link !
Ocean City NJ delays artificial turf http://ocnjdaily.com/ocean-city-suspends-artificial-turf-project-citing-health-risks/
http://www.lwvsf.org/elections-2/pro-cons-proposition-h-november-4-2014-2/
Proposition H is an initiative that would require the athletic fields in the western edge of Golden Gate Park to be maintained as natural grass and would ban nighttime lighting.
How is it Mayors and School Superintendents from NJ to Washington are rethinking their turf projects but, our commissioners don't see any evidence of potential health hazards?
Because the mayors and superintendents from NJ to Washington haven't "seen the dozens of studies...uh, not a single one says that...uh, turf creates any risk."
I have sent dozens of studies which do say that turf creates many risks to the commission and copied the solicitor. How can Solicitor Weis let Brumfield make that claim? How can Weis sit there knowing that dozens of studies were presented to the commission during Citizen Comments?
How many commissioners are charter members of the Mt. Lebanon Liars Club?
Elaine
I want to put this out there that Dave Brumfield made the decision to allow his ____ to play on turf when ___was in first grade. (I can't make any references to his ____ or else he will sue me.) Tire crumb infill came to Mt. Lebanon in 2010, not any earlier.
I have also sent studies to the commission indicating that the blades of "grass" and the backing are also harmful. Even if they suddenly decide to use organic infill, the turf is still toxic.
Recede and reseed, Commissioners.
Elaine
Brumfield makes a crucial error in my opinion.
He is correct in stating that "nearly" every sport in Mt. Lebanon plays on artificial turf. The key word being "nearly."
He is though incorrect that he and the commissioners aren't forcing are young athletes to play on turf. He's wrong! By turfing Wildcat and Middle Field he is forcing parents that want their kids to participate in a field sport to at some point play on artificial turf.
Currently no baseball or softball field 'IN' Mt. Lebanon has an artificially turfed surface.
SO MR. BRUMFIELD YOU ARE BY TURFING BALLFIELDS ELIMINATING ANY OPPORTUNITY FOR PARENTS WHO WANT THEIR KIDS TO PLAY A FIELD SPORT ONTO ARTIFICIAL TURF!
The only choice Mr. Brumfield, you'll be giving parents if they don't want their kids on turf is to either allow their kids to inhale crumb rubber or avoid ANY field sport.
Nice going Dave, force parents into a corner.
Brumfield's statement is correct regarding nearly every [outdoor] sport for Mt. Lebanon participants playing on turf. Before high school, my son played on turf, representing Mt. Lebanon teams, in baseball, football, lacrosse and soccer. So, if your child plays sports in Mt. Lebanon run or sponsored teams, they wil play on turf.
No Brumfield's statement is not correct!
There are no turfed baseball fields in MtL!
Yes, once your kid reaches travel baseball/softball or high school baseball/softball they may indeed play on a turfed field, but not until that time.
The younger kids play baseball/softball strictly on natural grass in MTL until now.
Now considering the cummulative effects of certain elements like lead, zinc do we really want to increase small children to more exposure and earlier?
7:56, please specifically list the artificially turfed baseball fields and in which community, your son played baseball on, please?
Dear 7:56 am:
Please back up your claims with data.
I just went through my athlete's fall soccer schedule.
He played on turf 2 out of 17 games. The two fields included the North Hills/Martorelli Stadium and Peter's Township High School.
His practices were all on grass, aside from try-out hours on the high school turf during the summer.
This commitment to soccer from age 3 to 13 in Mt Lebanon has resulted in 11% seasonal exposure to turf at the highest level of competition. Prior to this high school team, he had less exposure to turf.
We did not see this turf coming -- we were never asked, informed or warned that MTL would be pushing synthetic turf for soccer.
If you doubt my data, ask the high school soccer coaches for the schedules and we can compare notes.
Just an FYI, three very important meetings are scheduled this week.
Monday, November 3, 2014 First Budget Review 6:30 p.m., Mt. Lebanon Municipal Building
Tuesday, November 4, 2014 Second Budget Review 7:00 p.m., Mt. Lebanon Municipal Building
Thursday, November 6, 2014 Sports Advisory Board Meeting 8 p.m., Meeting Room C, Mt. Lebanon Municipal Building
Elaine
7:56, the only totally turfed baseball field I'm aware of in the WPIAL baseball system is Fox Chapel and that was only turfed in May of 2012 with $800,000 from a private donor.
Here in hoity-tioity Mt. Lebanon our oh so committed sports enthusiast struggled to come up with less than 25% of the cost of their precious turf!
Pre-HS Football - Mt. Lebanon Stadium, USC
Pre-HS Lacrosse - USC, Peters and multiple across PA, OH and MD
Pre-HS Soccer - Years ago, I don't recall the location, but since my memory is bad if you go the MLSA webpage you'll see a couple of nice photos of what look to be 7-10 year olds playing on turf.
Pre-HS Baseball - this was a long time ago but I seem to remember taking my son to a nearby town where there was a dirt infield and turf outfield. My recollection could be faulty on that one.
I agree the % is low but it is already happening across all the sports.
7:56, up until now a parent could sign their kid up for maverick thru major baseball and reasonably assume that the child would never practice or play on an artificially turfed field since all games for these age groups are scheduled on Lebo ballfields.
Now with the installation of turf at WCM the only choice a parent is left with is "does my kid play a field sport or not?"
I'd say Brumfield is forcing parents to make choices.
Dave isn't the only one forcing parents to choose. I hope Albert Turfstein comes through with some additional videos with John Bendel. In mtl Magazine, Steve Silverman wanted to increase Gatorade sales. How about the people who signed the donation checks from your child's sports organization.. Didn't Chip sign a check for $25,000 from the baseball association?
I hope there is a massive protest, because I have been writing about this for over a year! People are finally starting to get it.
Elaine
Actually these spendthrift commissioners and school directors are forcing residents/parents into deciding something more important than whether their kids play on turf or not.
Many people are beginning to question whether Mt. Lebanon is worth the cost of living here.
From sports participation fees, pool fees, greens fees, stormwater fees, student parking and lab fees, to taxes,
So I've known there is some anger about this issue. Some of it about the allocation of taxpayer dollars and some of it about health concerns. Some people are angered by both. I'm read that there is going to be a protest.
I drove by the site today to look for myself and it appears the top layer is removed and initial leveling done. Piles of stone are on the site and corrugated pipe so it appears that the installation of a drainage system is about to begin.
I'm guessing this whole process will take 6 - 10 weeks and two weeks are done (25% complete) based on my estimate.
Reports are that $250K was given via personal, sport association and corporate donations. I'll assume it included the four sports associations likely to use this field. So this would include baseball and soccer that current use the fields. Does some know what those associations contributed? If they contributed doesn't that indicate the association leadership supports the turf construction? You might not agree but they are the board members that get to decide. I'll apply the same theory to the township board. They are elected whether you agree or not. So the question with the township board becomes one of process. Was the process legal or not? It appears there is a divergence of opinion.
So my question is if the sports associations have donated, the construction is 25% complete meaning contracts are signed is the intention to use protests to stop the construction? Short of civil disobedience which would be comprised of occupying the field how is it proposed that this construction will be stopped? A court ordered injunction? Besides one of those two methods I'm not quite sure how the construction gets stopped. Are there any others?
If the construction is completed in the next 6-8 weeks is the intention to have the field removed post completion?
Sure you can vote the scroundrels out, but looking at the voting percentages of a previous post and really only people who vote count since non-voters can't vote out anyone you'll have to wait for that which I guess is a year or two away as I don't see any commissioner signs on lawns.
So, are people going to pitch tents on the field and occupy the space? Is someone going to secure legal representation and file an injunction?
Otherwise what I see here is all talk unless some action is going to be taken besides attending meetings and picket sign protests and thus waiting for the next election.
I'm not trying to minimize your opinions but what I see is no serious action of civil disobedience or legal injunction which would be required at this point. If I've missed reports of some sort of space occupying protest or filing of a legal injunction please point me to the reports so I can read about it or the opinion issued by the judge.
Just trying to understand the complete picture and what the end game to get to the process the stop besides attending meetings and blog posts.
Based on the commissioners response to their constituents appeals and their arrogant stance that they know more about turf than anyone else, your question is a good one.
I would think at this point a lawsuit should be filed, but having niether the legal acumen or financial resources I can admit I won't be filing one.
I guess the only end game I can see through all this is that we step up our scrutiny of our elected officials and municipal employees until we can get them all out.
It is rumored there are more turfing plans in the works. Let's not let another go thru!
If all these protests and blog postings do is wake up the sleeping residents of this town it will have been well worth it. Change is coming; probably not as fast as some would like, but that's the way it goes. Although I think it's a long shot, should it turn out that artificial turf does indeed cause latent cancer I would not want to be one of the current commissioners, even if they are out of office but still living around here.
Bob D.
Want to put a stop to the sports spending?
Cut off the money supply!
Don't vote for the guy for Governor that is promising to maintain the status quo of spend and tax, spend and tax, spend and tax.
Then seriously take a look at the people that control how property taxes are collected in PA and won't deal with pension costs and out of control higher education bills.
We must start somewhere, it might as well be here and now.
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