Several of us had asked Chief McDonough if we could have a copy of what he presented to the Commission, as I had written in an earlier post. Chief McDonough promised that he would share copies when it was written in final form. The Chief came through as promised with the following email:
Since you folks asked if you could see the deer program docs I presented to the Commission the other night, please see the attached.
Obviously, since I could not foresee the feedback I was going to receive from the Commission on Tuesday, the documents were in draft format that time, pending revisions based on the direction of the Commission. The attached documents incorporate the feedback of the ML Commission.
--
Chief Coleman McDonough
Mt. Lebanon Police Department
412-440-2057
cmcdonough@mtlebanon.org
Archer letter
Bow Hunter Certification
Deer Program Summary to the Commission
Rules and Regulations
I see that two locations were removed from the archery program; Iroquois Park and the Conservation District at Connor and Terrace. Regarding harassment of the archers, no worries about me. I will be faaaaar away. I know that was a concern during the last two deer killings and yet there were zero protests.
29 comments:
Interesting documents.
The Certification is really tough to meet!
Apparently in the Bubble only Police, Fireman, IT and PW employees can meet the standard, since they're already the predetermined applicants.
Under Rules and Regulations:
"PARTICIPANT CRITERIA AND SELECTION
Membership in the Mt. Lebanon Deer Management Archery Program is limited to municipal employees who have successfully met program requirements, are interested in wildlife conservation and have a sincere desire to assist in the reduction of whitetail deer population in the Municipality of Mt. Lebanon."
Limited? How do we know these employees are our best hunters/archers?
But then there is also this vague topic.
In the Archer letter:
"While you are permitted to harvest a buck in accordance with Pennsylvania Game Commission regulations, “trophy hunting” is discouraged."
Discouraged? Why not prohibited?
Plus no directions on dealing with the bodies after the hunter's intial buck is taken, is there?
Then in the "Deer Program Summary" this obtuse comment.
"The only fees that the municipality may be responsible for are the purchase of several 3-D targets (to conduct proficiency testing), and any “donation” fees charged by processors, should our archers wish to donate harvested deer to locations food banks or similar programs. It is anticipated that these donation fees would be approximately $15.00 per donated deer."
Should archers "WISH" to donate harvested deer?!
If they don't "wish" what happens to the venison? Can they sell it for a personal profit? Stock their own freezers? Donate the meat for a personal tax write off? Doesn't quite say.
This is another one of those convenient vague muni documents that leaves the rules open to interpretation.
Another are the "Rules and Regulations" where is states: "19. Successful hunters are encouraged to donate harvested deer to the Hunters-Sharing the Harvest program, or similar food sharing programs. Arrangements will be made with local processors to expedite donation of harvested deer."
Encouraged?!!!! But not required!
-WS
Safety is the #1 priority for the MTL police and clearly they agree with the gardeners: the deer must be removed from the community. They are a huge safety hazard to drivers. Someone ought to plot the stats on all of the injured drivers in MTL. I am so grateful that this community is finally prioritizing the safety of our drivers.
- Marnie Stonebrook
Marnie, its been done if you follow the analysis of the deer vehicle incidents in MTL.
But, by your comment regarding "all of the injured drivers" perhaps you can tell us your count.
You say the deer must be removed, so obviously you know how many people have been injured.
11:01 PM, I don't have HBO, so sadly, I have never seen my boyfriend, Joe Manganiello, on True Blood, but Marnie is a character from that show.
I think that there have been more hit and runs. I wish our commissioners would finally prioritize the safety of our pedestrians.
Elaine
Marnie Please oh Please do your homework.
You are more likely to hit a deer in your vehicle during a cull.
Good luck!
What is with these pro culling people not understanding what they are asking for? They are more likely to cause an accident then prevent one with any killing sharpshooting, archery whatever.
Oh yea they are going to say we need more killing when the accidents spike in Dec/Jan.
"a study in Pennsylvania found that car insurance claims for deer-related accidents increase fivefold during hunting season." M Scully
Pro deer culling advocates going to drive for a month to try and keep the accidents down.
10:10 Marnie Stonebrook
The MTL police clearly agree with the gardeners: the deer must be killed and removed from the community. They are a huge safety hazard to our tulips and hostas, and our garden tour. I am so grateful that this community is finally prioritizing the safety of our tulips.
Marnie, I am getting really tired of posting the deer incident report sent to the commission by Tom Kelley. Please read pages 8-14. It shows the injuries from deer incidents. Please let me know how many people were injured. Note one of the injuries involves a scooter hitting a curb. See 5/26/11. I believe it was on Arden. Doesn't Bendel live on Arden?
Elaine
"I release Mt. Lebanon and/or Property Owner from any liability associated with me hunting on their property."
Well, it looks like Mt. Lebanon, who is responsible, coordinating, and managing, this reckless community deer hunt, and who has been warned, on the record, of the risks and dangers of hunting in such a densely populated and developed community, and who has been presented with the facts, that hunting causes an increase in car-deer collisions, is trying to stick the hunter with any liability for all associated injuries, deaths, or property damage, resulting from their hunting program.
How many Mt. Lebanon employees are going to be stupid enough to sign this agreement?
It appears, that Mt. Lebanon is also trying to stick residents and non-residents with no way to collect adequate damages caused by their hunt. Whitetail Mgt. Associates, the deer killing club, that volunteers their services to kill deer in suburban communities, requires their hunters to carry a 1 million dollar liability insurance policy in case any accidents happen. If Mt. Lebanon isn't going to cover the hunters, and they aren't requiring the hunters to carry liability insurance, that means that the residents or damaged parties can't collect any damages, except for maybe all the hunter's assets.
Regardless, I doubt very much that this agreement would hold up in court. If a resident's child is seriously injured or a motorist is killed by a panicked wounded deer running out into the road, I doubt that either damaged party is going to stop at suing the hunter, but will also sue the property owner, and Mt. Lebanon Municipality, who ignored the danger risks and facts presented to them, which shows intentional negligence and recklessness of their part, and should be liable for any damages incurred. I'm not an attorney, but you can be sure that if my child was injured, that stupid agreement wouldn't stop me from going after the property owner and Mt. Lebanon for damages. At worst case, the property owner is going to have to hire and pay an attorney to defend them in court.
The new yard signs:
Drive Like Your IT Department is Hunting Deer Here
Marnie, I can understand why you might believe that deer are "a huge safety hazard to drivers" in light of how certain elected representatives have been portraying deer in Mt. Lebanon. According to the municipality's own records of injury-causing accidents, however, the truth is much different. Deer are involved in less than 2% of such accidents.
In other words, the municipality's own stats argue that completely eliminating deer from Mt. Lebanon would do nothing to prevent 98% of injury-causing car accidents.
Reprinting from my earlier comment, here are the stats:
Deer incidents involving injuries:
6 incidents / 3.8 years = 1.6 incidents/year
Car incidents involving injuries:
141 incidents / 1.7 years = 83.5 incidents/year
Relative risk: car to deer:
83.5 / 1.6 = 52.8
If an IT person makes a bad shot and hits someone will they brush it off with... "must be due to a hardware problem!"
From Lebomag.com:
"The purpose is “the safe, natural and human harvest of deer in order to reduce the deer population in Mt. Lebanon,” said Mt. Lebanon Police Chief Coleman McDonough, who designed and will administer the program."
"Natural?" On what planet is getting a vital organ pierced with sugical-sharp broadhead tipped arrow a "natural" occurance?
From Google's dictionary:
nat·u·ral/ˈnaCH(ə)rəl/
adjective
existing in or caused by nature; not made or caused by humankind.
of or in agreement with the character or makeup of, or circumstances surrounding, someone or something.
(of a parent or child) related by blood.
(of a note) not sharped or flatted.
relating to earthly or unredeemed human or physical nature as distinct from the spiritual or supernatural realm.
I'd say a death from a cull conducted by archers is... caused by humankind and therefore by definition not a natural event.
At least I'm pretty sure our municipal employees are human, but at this point nothing would surprise me.
I personally think there is already a lawsuit being worked up as we write. Ha ha ha.
So if a hunter accidentally shoots me...he better drag me somewhere and finish me off.
Oh, and Marnie was one of the bad characters from True blood. Figures a pro-culler would pick her. She tried to kill all of the vampires. Joe Magniello as a werewolf sided with the vampires. Marnie is one of the craziest bitch characters from the show.
Sign me Sookie. I kick ass!
Joe Magniello's character from true blood wouldn't hurt a deer.
I wonder how many google hits True Blood and Joe Magniello get? Hmmm...Shark Tank and Mark Cuban? They would not like the way this deer culing proposal would be going would they?
Anyone follow me?
Why the hell do they need 30days to do this cull? What is the max number of deer they are allowed to kill? What if they kill all the deer? Are any deer wanted in Lebo at all?
Why isn't this going though animal control? They deal with nuisance animals and fine those that do not handle their animals properly.
Animal control is an effective team, right?
Ah...waking up to another day in paradise!
6:18 PM - From Lebomag.com: "The purpose is “the safe, natural and human harvest of deer in order to reduce the deer population in Mt. Lebanon,” said Mt. Lebanon Police Chief Coleman McDonough, who designed and will administer the program."
SAFE
Chief McDonough, if bow hunting in a community as densely populated and developed as Mt. Lebanon is so "SAFE", then how about you signing a waver rejecting liability protection coverage from Mt. Lebanon, and be willing to take personal responsiblity and liability for any accidents, injuries, deaths, and property damage resulting from the hunt that you have designed and are promoting?
HUMANE HARVEST ?
First, any time someone starts using euphemisms for killing, you know they're trying to hide something. Deer aren't crops to be harvested, bagged, removed, thinned, etc., they're sentient animals, just like our beloved dogs, and they're being killed inhumanely. And this deer killing program is totally ineffective; i.e. it isn't going to resolve the deer-human conflicts or reduce the deer population. So all of Mt. Lebanon's families and pets are going to be put in harms way, and all of this creation of community divisiveness is for nothing. All of this craziness for tulips.
I guess it helps the claims of a "humane harvest" when Mt. Lebanon hides the letters from The Humane Society Of The United States (HSUS) voicing its firm opposition to its deer killing program. The Humane Society Of The United States letters to the Commission dated November 8, 2011, opposing a deer hunting and culling program, and November 6, 2012 opposing the clover trap-and-kill program, are conveniently absent and not posted on the Deer Management Information document page for residents to view.
"On behalf of The Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) and our 638,000 Pennsylvania members and supporters, I am writing to voice our firm opposition to the proposed plan to allow hunting or deer culling (bait and shoot) as a means of reducing deer-related conflicts. Arbitrarily plucking deer out of the environment will not achieve the Township’s goals. Instead, this misguided plan is likely to expose the public to increased safety risks and the trauma of seeing wounded deer. There are far better ways to resolve this (and any other) ―deer problem." Laura Simon, HSUS, Wildlife Biologist.
How can Chief McDonough call this bow hunting program a "humane harvest", when over twenty- two published scientific surveys and studies indicate that the average wounding rate for bow hunting is over 50 percent. More than one out of every two deer shot is never retrieved, but dies a slow tortuous death from blood loss and infection?
How can Chief McDonough call this trap-and-bolt deer killing program humane, when all the humane organizations and veterinarian associations call it inhumane?
Laura Simon, Wildlife Biologist, The Humane Society of the United States
I am writing to object strongly to your town’s plan to use trapping and the captive bolt as a management tool for white-tailed deer. The HSUS is committed to preventing suffering in all animals. We firmly believe that it is impossible to ensure that this technology is used correctly and consistently enough in the field to provide a humane death to deer. Captive bolt guns are designed for use on restrained domestic animals in highly structured and controlled environments. Even there, the "humaneness" of these devices has been called into question. These guns were not designed for use on wild animals under any circumstances, and certainly not as a management tool for white-tailed deer.
My guess is that Mt. Lebanon Magazine won't be publishing The Humane Society of the United States letters to the Commission any time soon.
4:09 AM, I sent the following email to the commission and copied the manager, chief, and pio:
Commissioners,
It was observed by a Lebo Citizens reader that the letters from The Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) were not published on the municipal website.
Would you folks please update the website to include these letters?
Thank you.
Elaine Gillen
The omission of information for the public is the same as the public turf meeting.
They'll only make available info that helps their objective.
Why all the hate towards I.T.? You sure do scream and cry when you need some help with your computer or a website isn't working. Should I wear my t-shirt with "Hands Up Don't shoot "I.T." " tomorrow? Or visit Shadyside?
This article was in yesterday's PG and was sent to me by a Lebo Citizens reader, along with this comment.
"I don't know about you, but I can't believe I live in a suburb in which our police spokesperson talks about getting into the "kill zone" not only with deer, but apparently also with people."
Little Pennsylvania communities get big weapons from U.S. military surplus
The Mt. Lebanon Police Department has an armored truck!
Elaine
BJ, since when did being an IT geek qualify one as an expert hunter or archer?
What's next, if we have an epidemic of heart attacks due to our large senior citizen population we'll call on our IT dept. to do heart transplants.
Or perhaps, they IT people sleep at a Holiday Inn.
BJ the sarcasm is brought about by the limitation of making the opportunity to hunt deer in MTL open only to police, firemen, PW and IT employees! Why?
Are IT more proficient than the butcher, baker or candlestick maker that lives in Lebo and has hunted deer their whole life?
I know, the IT employees spend a lot of time online playing Deer Hunter and Top Shot on their computers so they're more proficient than just about everyone.
The question is why don't we charge a fee an open the hunt to residents?
What is this-- Medeval England where one needs permission of the Queen to hunt the Royal Deer?
- WS
I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall when this plan to use public employees to cull deer was proposed.
Here's how I imagine the conversation went.
"we need to eliminate the deer and it'll be more palatable to residents if we do it as cheap as possible."
"what if we use public employees?"
"good idea, but of all our employees, which are the most proficient bowmen?"
"the IT people, of course! Oh and the guy that drives the leaf truck!"
Check out this video on YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oi2zQLAnRcQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Try to spot the arrows at the very end. Is this one of our cull volunteers?
The IT comment reflects the pattern of modern discrimination that is present in Mt Lebanon: in-group favoritism. The muni feels they have already vetted these employees and it's easier to communicate with them, given that they meet at the water cooler on a daily basis. Therefore, the muni feels justified in opening archery to the colleagues and not the community or region as a whole.
Post a Comment