"The start of the controversial cull of 150 white-tailed deer in Mt. Lebanon, planned for Monday night, might be delayed for technical reasons.
Brian Benner of Wildlife Specialists said today that some necessary equipment wasn’t in place.
And the company plans to request an addendum to its permit from the state Game Commission, he said, expanding the number of workers it may use during the operation.
“I’m not sure if we’ll start Monday or not. It depends on how much equipment we can set up,” said Mr. Benner. “We still have to set up some cameras and different technology that lets us know where the deer are.”
The special use permit allows only two workers to participate in the project. Increased manpower would enable the work to proceed more quickly and efficiently, said Mr. Brenner."
54 comments:
Merlin---- Might you be exercising wise judgment and decided that you may not shoot until the utilities are done with their inspections? Perhaps you sought legal advice. If so, good.
Isn't that a "Bait and Switch"? Wouldn't more manpower and equipment require more $$??
Hey Commissioners, way to go! You placed your trust and confidence in this doofus, so who is the doofus now?
In military parlance, this is classic FUBAR, just like all the NOMFIC's -- yeah you, Dumbfield, Bendel, Silverman, Linfante, Feller, Weis, McDonough, Franklin !
Benner's crying faster than I could ever have imagined when I submitted the comment below under another post.
He knows damn well this corral & kill can't get anywhere the numbers suggested.
Cut 'em loose now comissioners and work on the initiave mentioned in today's Trib. http://triblive.com/mobile/7859873-96/deer-county-culling
Try working with Fraasch for a change as well, she's not a dummy.
"Keep this quote conveniently near by for reference in about 3 weeks.
"""For this to work, a large number of deer have to be removed in the first year within a narrow window of opportunity," saidWildlife Specialists project manager Brian Benner. "We take all precautions to do it safely, and at this point this is the only way to really do it.""
http://m.insurancenewsnet.com/oarticle/2015/02/22/mt-lebanons-deer-herd-in-the-crosshairs-a-597957.html
Why you ask!
Because that is about the time Benner is going to go crying to the commissioners that the reason his "never been tried" cull didn't reap a large number of deer is due to the lawbreaking protesters, and that he should be given more time.
Regardless of how he came up short, whether due to sabotage or because it was a stupid plan, he said there was a short window of opportunity.
Since he was the $12,000 consultant that set the schedule, it'll be time to tell Benner to pack up his corrals and ride back to Wellsburg.
People don't want his crew here now, can you imagine the uproar when he fails and ask for more time and probably more money."
March 8, 2015 at 4:39 PM
6:51 TARFU!!!
Or did this anonymous comment make Benner realise he was going to fail, big time.
"Shooting begins Monday...
that means Benner's two guys will have to kill, gut, load, clean up the site and transport to a processor an average of 6.52 deer every night for 23 days straight to fulfill the 150 deer killed goal.
i don't think it's physically possible under the cover of darkness.
i'm still anxious to hear how we're going to confirm the take.
Benner believes the protestors are lawbreakers, I'd say, considering his response to corral locations, he may be a bullshitter and we better get solid confirmation he's counting his kills accurately."
March 8, 2015 at 12:51 PM
Dont give up the fight and keep a keen eye on the situation.. just like they crammed the bail/corral cull down our throats. these guys contractor/commissioners are capable of much much more .
you are so right 7:57, but lets recap how incompetent our leaders are. First we have the elementary school/nanatorium that went waaaay over budget and the nanatorium never got built.
then the parking space fiasco for the HS renovation. then there's the first round of bids that went waaaay over expectarions.
now the renovation and the stealthy Capital Campaign that was going to raise 30, no 15, no $6 million.
on the muni side, we have the unpaid parking fines, the TOD with just one developer interested, the archery cull where someone forgot to buy hunting licenses, the crown jewel, and now after all the news on the deer corrals this one falls apart. plus, how's the garbage collection, newcomers tax and thode new athletic fields at Twin Hills and McNeilly working out for you all?
Nope, Benner is waiting for the snow to melt to eliminate the ability to follow evidence and yes he needs more men. Most important he needs more time to pull in enough deer. He'll be extending this till June pretty soon to get his 150 counting fetuses. At this point the Game Commission will bend over for him to succeed. He must be squirming at the moment knowing his employees aren't even set up yet.
I just did an interview with WTAE. Benner wouldn't tell them when they were going to start. He said to ask the commissioners.
There are three nursery schools near Bird Park. If they had a kindergarten program, Benner couldn't shoot. I guess nursery school kids are on their own!
I can picture helicopters flying around tomorrow searching for corrals!
Elaine
"“I’m not sure if we’ll start Monday or not. It depends on how much equipment we can set up,” said Mr. Benner. “We still have to set up some cameras and different technology that lets us know where the deer are.”"
now how would the commissioners know how long it'll take Benner to get his additional equipment up?
Can't anyone be honest here?
Two of the churches do have kindergarten programs with certified teachers. I suggest that Benner and Feller make their phone calls. While they are at it, why don't they call the Department of Education and find out if the kindergarten programs at these schools qualify for protection on the the federal gun-free school zone act?
Don't forget about Mt Lebanon's homeschooling population either -- the homes of these students are considered "schools" and they qualify for the 1000 foot gun free school zones.
8:54 PM How about locations of home schooled children - does the 1,000 ft. distance apply for them ?
9:17 Honesty is not exactly within the ballpark of a reasonable expectation here in Mt Lebanon. Nope. Not a bit. You have to paint these bad guys into a corner just to.... I dunno..overcome the bad things they are constantly doing. It's like living a long course in public corruption.
Yes, 9:38 pm -- that's what I am saying. No one has looked into the growing population of homeschooled children in Mt Lebanon and their addresses, which warrant the 1000 foot buffer.
This is not information the school district is going to want to share, either... oh how this saga continues.
WARNING: Benner WILL begin the killings tomorrow night. The PG piece is a strategically-timed red herring. John Hayes was fed this misinformation by the PIO, which both want to distract and deter the covert videography .
My daughter went to kindergarten enrichment at Mushroom.
So if there are toddlers at an accredited school it does not matter?
Why did the WTAE "reporter" not ask Benner why the cameras, etc. were not up and ready to go a week ago?
As a mother of a 9 and 11 year old I have taught them both something vitally important that they will hopefully apply over and over again throughout their lives. It is OK to admit when you are wrong! It takes a big person to have the courage, strength and faith to be able to admit being wrong. What sort of message are these commisioners...these "leaders" sending to others? Please, GROW UP! It takes a leader to stop this mistake. Be a leader instead of a follower.
Channel 53 10:00 news just reported that the killing will start tomorrow evening as planned.
Elaine
If I had hired a contractor to work on my house and he screwed up as much as Brenner has, I would have fired him a LONG time ago. Brenner needs to get out of here NOW. Does Lebo really want to hire a company this incompetent to shoot guns 50 ft. from citizens' homes in the middle of the night???
Elaine at 10:08 pm.
Seriously?
The PG is colluding with the PIO to prevent videography of this event?
Oy vey
10:47 PM, I have no idea what the heck is going on. More conflicting information than ever.
Elaine
March 8, 2015 at 9:54 PM
I agree with 9:54 PM. I don't believe a word at all in this article about delay. I think this was a strategically-timed red herring between Lebo's PIO in collusion with the PG hunting blowhard John Hayes to distract the opposition and keep cameras away from the killing sites tomorrow night. IMO, all hands on deck and really for the slaughter to begin.
BTW, why would Benner reach out to place such a press article announcement other than to distract the opposition movement. It makes no sense.
Elaine, just watched you on WTAE - great job!!!! THANKS!!!!
If Benner was smart he would pack his stuff up and leave town...... I know I would. Its only hurting his business, people hate him and blame this for him for this, and SO much bad press.... if this man were smart, that is exactly what he would do.
Just noticed that the PG changed the title of the article Elaine links to in this blog entry to this:
"Technical issues could delay Mt. Lebanon deer cull"
So in other words:
Benner is going to try to slaughter deer tomorrow but if it doesn't work out, he'll blame it on technical issues.
WPXI News reported commission president ...
"She" said it will start tomorrow as planned. She ? As in Ms. Linfante ?
11:31 PM, thanks for pointing that out. The article has been expanded to include a quote from an anti-kill resident and a quote from Benner.
Elaine
Oh deer!
http://www.post-gazette.com/opinion/gary-rotstein/2015/03/09/Gary-Rotstein-Morning-File-for-Page-2-Portfolio-Opinion/stories/201503090021
http://www.dve.com/onair/sean-mcdowell-4802/mtlebanon-monday-die-deer-die-13388395
http://www.huntingpa.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3525707&page=5
More and more are picking up this story! Benner and Mt Lebanon commissioners are getting more attention than they bargained for.
:)
the way this corral & kill spectacle has been playing out, I fully expect that soon we'll wake up to a PG headline that reads something likes this—
Typographical error uncovered deer not the problem on Mt. Lebanon roads.
MT LEBANON-after years of planning and failed attempts to to reduce the number of deer causing death and destruction on the municipality's roadways and the demiss of thousands of tulips it was uncovered that due to an email typo deer aren't the problem.
An unname municipal employee disccovered today that all along they've been working from the wrong accident reports. "I thought they wanted deer-related accident reports, when all along it was BEER-related accident reports they were looking for."
No one is quite sure when the miscommunication occurred, but a full investigation is underway, and the errant typist will be given a fully paid two week leave when caught to attend keyboarding classes.
Meanwhile the $75,000 deer cull will go as planned. one commissioner stated, "we've gone this far, why stop now. Tomorrow we'll investigate whether we need to buy more breathalyzers, add DUI checkpoints or decide that beer really isn't a problem. A majority of Lebo residents like beer plus this isn't the Southside where people urinate on people's private property."
I hope as many people as possible will be hanging out in (while legally allowed and therefore our right) and outside the parks tonight. Hopefully Elaine will post later whether any other parks have had the gates added so we know where to focus. We shouldn't be buying the "technical delay" argument and we need people out there. Don't let them get away with this under cover of darkness, that would be way too easy and just what they would wish for. I almost feel sorry for Mr Benner. I'm sure he wants out of this mess by now and it seems like the commissioners are determined to make him the target of any legal action that might ensue.
http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/hunting-fishing/2012/12/02/New-Pennsylvania-laws-haven-t-curbed-the-worst-cases-of-wildlife-poaching/stories/201212020216
In January 2010, a 22-year-old West Virginia woman and an accomplice engaged in a killing spree that spanned two days and six counties. Armed with .22- and .17-caliber rifles, they drove around the Pennsylvania-West Virginia border at night spotlighting and opening fire on deer, mortally wounding some and leaving others to suffer for days before dying.
The Pennsylvania Game Commission considered it unsportsmanlike conduct at its worst.
Dan Sitler said, "It's a very despicable practice," he said. "We take all poaching very seriously, but when you get into these thrill kills there's not a person out there that can justify that. It's just outright wrong."
"If you look at it as the theft of wildlife, then why shouldn't we treat it the same as the theft of any other natural resource," said Rich Palmer, PGC director of the bureau of wildlife protection.
Puhala said poaching motivation often stems from greed, obsession, a sense of entitlement or the view that game laws, as well as other laws, are there to be broken.
In most cases, however, Sitler said there's no valid reason for wildlife thrill killing, or as he calls it, "joy shooting."
"It's difficult to tell what their reasons are," he said. "If I could figure out the mentality of poaching, I'd write a book."
Wildlife management authorities consider the trill-kill mentality a complete disregard for wildlife, for which something has to be done.
"I personally feel like I have to protect that which can't protect itself," said Puhala. "It's our job. You have to be a voice for something that doesn't have a voice."
Apparently the radio guys at WDVE had an entire part of their show this morning devoted to laughing at Lebo, comparing it to the movie "the silence of the lambs" but instead it was deer and bird park Way to be the laughing stock Lebo!! I guess the PIO thinks any press is good press, huh?
Is Allegheny County Wildlife Conservation Officer Dan Puhala involved with monitoring Benner's operations in Mt. Lebanon?
He and fellow WCOs are fining people for baiting deer and using centerfire rifles on deer within Allegheny County:
http://www.timesonline.com/community/sports/wildlife-officers-report-recurring-problems-during-hunting-seasons/article_530bd714-9c42-11e4-9c01-1fea49ca39f5.html
Are Benner's people using centerfire rifles? Did they get a variance to permit this in Allegheny County?
http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/outdoors/2014/12/14/Outdoors-notebook-2B-or-not-2B-Policy-questions-remain/stories/201412140128
If Benner's bandits are using rimfire firearms, are they claiming humane, one shot kills? While it is legal in a few states, it is illegal in most, and for good reason. Here's one discussion among hunters on using rimfire on deer:
http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-267323.html
To understand what they are using, and risk to surrounding areas, it is essential to know:
1) caliber of firearm
2) centerfire, rimfire or maybe they are using muskets
3) bullet type - jhp, fmj, frangible etc.
4) muzzle velocity of ammunition
5) barrel length (which affects reference muzzle velocity)
6) weight of projectile
They have NO legitimate reason not to disclose this. If they refuse, they may be in violation of certain laws, unless the PGC permit explicitly states exemptions.
It may be of some use to request a WCO be present at kills to ensure all laws are being observed.
Contact PGC here: http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt?open=514&objID=575672&mode=2
I've taken to answering "the South Hills" when asked in conversations where I live.
It just so much easier than enduring the "lucky you" sarcasm.
9:10 AM
"I personally feel like I have to protect that which can't protect itself," said Puhala. "It's our job. You have to be a voice for something that doesn't have a voice."
You got to be friggin joking!!! The PGC officer protecting the deer and speaking for them. You believe that, and I got a bridge to sell you.
The PGC is just upset with poaching, because they aren't getting their hunting license cut of the pie. The PGC runs a state wide blood "sport" killing business. And they are upset about poachers thrill killing. Right, no thrills killing unless you buy a license first. Give me a friggin break!!!
Please notify the Pa Game Commission (PGC), with your concerns, that Wildlife Specialists LLC 's corral killing site in McNeilly Park violates the mandated safety buffer zone protecting residents and businesses in Baldwin Township
Please email:
Rich Palmer, PGC, Deputy Director of Field Operations, rpalmer@pa.gov
CC:
Kelly Fraasch, Mt. Lebanon Commission, kfraasch@mtlebanon.org
Matthew Santoni, Pgh. Tribune Review, msantoni@tribweb.com
(Add any additional email contacts you want to notify)
While Mt. Lebanon has a special permit from the PGC that allows it to hire Wildlife Specialists LLC to shoot deer within the state mandated hunting safety zone of 150 yards (450 feet) within its municipality, I don't believe this permit authorizes Wildlife Specialists LLC to erect a corral shooting location that violates the state mandated safety buffer zone that protects occupied residences and commercial buildings in adjacent communities like Baldwin Township. The location of the McNeilly Park killing corral is located an estimated 300 feet behind the CITGO gas station with tanks in the direct line of fire, and it appears even closer to the homes on Donaldson Drive and Highridge Drive, which all reside in Baldwin Township.
Pa Game Commission Safety Zones
https://pagamecommission.wordpress.com/2015/01/16/safety-zones/
It is unlawful to hunt for, shoot at, trap, take, chase or disturb wildlife within 150 yards of any occupied residence, camp, industrial or commercial building, farm house or farm building, or school or playground without the permission of the occupants.
A number of residents on Donaldson and Highridge Drive have been asked about this corral killing site, and they were totally unaware that it existed right behind their homes or that the shooting was planned to start on Monday. No permission had been requested of them, and they have been given no notification or warning. There aren't even warning signs posted at the Baldwin Township access areas.
Baldwin Township was notified, but apparently will do nothing to stop this violation of the state mandated safety buffer zone that protects their residents and businesses, nor will they enforce their own hunting or discharging weapons ordinance, which says presents an enormous public safety hazard. Apparently, Mt. Lebanon Police Chief Coleman assured them that this corral killing program was "perfectly safe". This raises earlier concerns about who will police the police, and the conflict of interest involved in that scenario.
If Baldwin Township doesn't enforce it's own hunting and discharging weapons ordinance, and fails to report the violation of the Pennsylvania Game Commission's state mandated 150 yard safety zone regulation, which threatens the safety of its residents and businesses, then this failure to enforce and report these violations might be found by a court as intentional and reckless endangerment, and hold Baldwin Township liable if any damages, injuries, and/or deaths occur. Regardless, Baldwin Township can not give permission to Mt. Lebanon or Wildlife Specialists LLC to violate the state mandated safety buffer zone enacted to protect its residents and businesses.
This situation needs to be investigated before any shooting takes place.
Lebomag ask in it's latest poll "My favorite Mt. Lebanon 'Spring Thing' is:" and it list five options.
This time next year they'll be able to add a sixth choice-- 'The smell of death wafting through the parks and woods.'
Here's a suggestion for the PIO. Rather than taking the "let them eat cake" charitable idea of sending the culled venison to soup kitchens, why don't we hold an annual "Venison Chili and Stew Cookoff?"
If the meat is so tasty, let's have the deer-haters eat it and send the $25 ticket donations to the charities to buy good food.
After all doesn't a Hoodridge resident want us all to "Eat More Venison."
Don't the charities have any pride or compassion for the people they serve.
What are the poor, hungry and homeless, human garbage disposals for the deer meat MTL could send nowhere else but a landfill?
If I were the charities, I'd tell the commissioners to eat the venison themselves!
In fact, I'd like to see Linfante, Brumfield, Silverman, Bendel, Feller and Morgans chow done on some nice venison steaks at the next meeting.
Why doesn't someone bring some venison in on Tues. nite, and cut it up into bite size pieces with a toothpick, and offer it to the Commissioners?
A nice sunny day for photography and a walk in the park!
Maybe this missing equipment will tell which corrals will be ready for "business" first?
The MTL comissioners and the game comission should be ashamed of themselves! I don't know how you people sleep at night. This brutal and unnecessary "culling of the herd" has given me nightmares and has made me ashamed to admit that I live here.
Uncle Pavlov's fatal fondue deer dip, 100% ethics-free!
The commissioners must be salivating.
Forget Baldwin Township. What about Brookline, which is part of the City of Pittsburgh and borders on McNeill Park. Brookline has had its battles with Mt. Lebo., Including one early last year about some Mt. Lebo property use next to the Brookline border. It wasn't about deer, but the Brookliners showed up in droves at Mt. Lebo commission meetings.
Here are the killing sites for tonight. Please spread the word. THE KILLING STARTS TONIGHT.
Bird
McNeilly
Robb Hollow
Connor
By 5:00 PM today, Benner should have approval for 2 or 3 more being allowed to "discharge."
Christ Science Church has a kindergarten "enrichment" program, so they are exempt from the Federal Gun Law.
I am getting so many emails asking how they can help. Here is all I can offer:
Protest is at 5:30 tomorrow in front of the municipal building on Washington Road. Citizen Comments begins around 8:05 PM. Sign up sheets to speak should be available after 6:00 PM.
The media would like to tag along with anyone who may be video recording tonight. Contact me at EGILLEN476@aol.com if you would like to participate.
If anyone has reindeer decorations from the Holidays, put them out in your front yards.
Elaine
Otherwise, there is nothing else that can be done.
According to John Hayes/Pittsburgh Post Gazette we don't need Benner, the police or the PIO to tell us when they are going to shoot.
"Six-sided portable corral traps were set up around the feeders — the permit stipulates that the corrals must be covered with netting and feeders must be removed from inside the trap on nights when shooting is expected to occur."
If we just watch the corrals closely, if it doesn't have a feeder in it... they're shooting that night. If the feeder is in the corral they can't legally shoot any deer according to Hayes/PG.
Mt. Lebanon deer cull begins Monday night | Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
Warm enough to leave a window open and call 911 if you hear anything out of the ordinary, like gunfire.
Here is what a suppressed, subsonic .22 rimfire sounds like (ABSOLUTELY INHUMANE FOR DEER)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQeYYmy0yhg
Comparison of supersonic vs. subsonic suppressed .22
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2Vtxd4EuYA
22mag will be louder
Centerfire in Allegheny County requires special permission, otherwise illegal.
Residents have a RIGHT to know what firearms and ammunition will be used in their neighborhood.
If you have a scanner, you can monitor whether police are actually responding to calls or declaring them unfounded without physically going to the area and checking it out.
Their frequencies are here:
http://www.pghscanner.com/pghradio.html
Radio shack and maybe Best Buy or similar stores have scanners.
Anywhere from under $100 and up.
possibly something like this:
http://www.radioshack.com/on/demandware.store/Sites-radioshack-Site/default/FindInStores-FindInStores?pid=2000649#start=11
Write down the Mt. Lebanon and surrounding area frequencies to be sure the scanner will pick them up. Might ask a salesman if he can program a half-dozen in.
I am told Mt. Lebanon frequencies can be heard well outside the area.
Observe all laws regarding using or taping scanner traffic. Making notes of when and where calls are heard may be helpful.
Since they will have to haul the deer out, one might expect they will want to be done before morning joggers are out. Around 2 to 4 AM is really quiet in most suburbs, but could be earlier. Their trucks will have to be parked somewhere, unless they have enough people to swoop in and out.
Please see what I got from Commissioner Fraasch when I asked about her item on the agenda for tomorrow.
"Thank you for asking. The Commission committed to some nonlethal methods awhile ago. Education was one of the methods and nothing was done except the video and information on the website. However we have residents that either don't have internet access or don't feel comfortable to access the information. As a municipality we have residents enjoy hearing speakers from a variety of backgrounds and we haven't had one speak on gardening and landscape issues which is one of the main complaints for killing the deer. It only makes sense if we are looking at a comprehensive program that we include a genuine effort to get a speaker to present at the library or municipal building. I will also be discussing a variety of other issues related to nonlethal methods..." OMG anyone else think this makes sense! Lebo Citizens we need to support her tomorrow night!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How much would a pamphlet on deer-resistant gardens cost to send to every address? Not every resident, just every residence. I'm betting a lot less than $75,000
You'd be surprised how many people are out jogging at 4 in the morning.
I'm surprised that several are women and running in some pretty secluded areas.
Kelly should be Mt Lebanon's Patron Saint of Commissioners. The others lie, lie and lie.
Any slaughter news?
They are all corrupt. Move 'em on out.
Amen! Get out there tonight, people! The plan will DEFINITELY need citizen volunteers, so be prepared to commit to helping out!
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